market fee - difference in sell and buy orders

Feedback, questions and general discussion regarding Nile Online
Rednael
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 6:24 pm

market fee - difference in sell and buy orders

Postby Rednael » Wed May 13, 2009 6:37 pm

when you list a sell order, the 10% market fee is immediately deducted from your bread store, and when the sell order is completed, you receive 100% bread. If you delist the sell order, you have lost your 10% and have to pay 10% to list it again. (for example if you see that your initial price was too high, too bad you just lost 10% if you want to list it at a lower price)

When you list a buy order, you are deducted the total bread value, but no fee is charged until the transaction is approved by another party - then 10% is deducted from his receipts and he receives 90% of the bread. Delisting a buy order results in no fee being charged.

I don´t understand why the sell orders are not handled like the buy order. Why is there actually a LISTING fee not a TRANSACTION fee? is this intended or is it a bug? I find it strange at any rate there is a difference in principle between sell and buy orders, it is my understanding that the market fee is a commision fee - but clearly, it´s a listing fee.

Anyone have any thoughts on this, or know what the intention is here?

Jaguar
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada

Postby Jaguar » Wed May 13, 2009 7:06 pm

Various games have listing fees. For example in World of Warcraft, you pay a deposit. When your item is sold, your deposit is refunded, however, you pay a percentage fee, which is usually larger than the initial deposit.

Basically a listing fee deters people from putting up stupid sales orders or using the market as storage with exorbitant buy-out prices.

I honestly don't see an issue with a listing fee, and would actually not oppose a buy-order listing fee rather than having the seller have to pay the fee in that situation.

Rednael
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 6:24 pm

Postby Rednael » Wed May 13, 2009 7:13 pm

"Jaguar" wrote:Various games have listing fees. For example in World of Warcraft, you pay a deposit. When your item is sold, your deposit is refunded, however, you pay a percentage fee, which is usually larger than the initial deposit.

Basically a listing fee deters people from putting up stupid sales orders or using the market as storage with exorbitant buy-out prices.

I honestly don't see an issue with a listing fee, and would actually not oppose a buy-order listing fee rather than having the seller have to pay the fee in that situation.


Good example. But In this game, it´s not a deposit - you actually LOSE your fee if you delist the item - and then you have to pay it again to list the item again!

So there is a difference in principle - sell orders have a LISTING fee while buy orders have a TRANSACTION fee. I think that is still pretty odd.

I like your deposit example from WOW, I wish the game worked like that - that would be fair, but IMO to pay the listing fee again just to change your price? to me that promotes imperfections in the market...

Jaguar
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada

Postby Jaguar » Wed May 13, 2009 7:19 pm

"Rednael" wrote:Good example. But In this game, it´s not a deposit - you actually LOSE your fee if you delist the item - and then you have to pay it again to list the item again!

So there is a difference in principle - sell orders have a LISTING fee while buy orders have a TRANSACTION fee. I think that is still pretty odd.

I like your deposit example from WOW, I wish the game worked like that - that would be fair, but IMO to pay the listing fee again just to change your price? to me that promotes imperfections in the market...


You LOSE your fee in World of Warcraft as well if the listing expires before a sale or if you cancel your listing. I don't really see a difference in that regard. However, I think that buy-orders should be handled differently.

Rednael
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 6:24 pm

Postby Rednael » Wed May 13, 2009 7:28 pm

I never played WOW i just went by the brief description you gave :)

So you agree that the principle should be the same for both sell and buy orders, only you want to impose the listing fee on buy orders as well - I guess that´s another perspective on it :)

Jaguar
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada

Postby Jaguar » Wed May 13, 2009 7:40 pm

Yes. I think the instigator of the order, whether it be buy or sell, should be the one paying the fee.

abana
Posts: 1506
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:29 am

Postby abana » Wed May 13, 2009 7:49 pm

I have suggested a couple of changes, I would like different kinds of market upgrades. Buy vs Sell, and North vs South. I may be on the edge of a really developed area, I want to buy from there, but I want to sell in the other direction. Say I am in 63N, I want to buy from the south, and sell in the north, I would like to be able to seee the orders from the south, so that I can buy, but I would like to be able to expand my market to the north so that others can see my orders. But I would also like to be able to see what else is on the market, so I know how to proce, so I might have to pay to see the sell orders, too.

joshofet
Posts: 957
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Dead and buried in Basthenew

Postby joshofet » Wed May 13, 2009 8:20 pm

It doesn't matter who pays the fee, whether the buyer has to add it to the price paid (like in the US), or the seller includes it in the price charged (like in Europe).

The listing fee, to be paid in advance, was introduced to prevent players from using the market as a warehouse by putting up goods for sale for high prices, and removing it when needed.

No such problem can occur with buy orders, since bread storage is (virtually) unlimited. The payment of the fee initially was such that the seller would have to pay it before the buy order was fulfilled, that was changed later to use the payment to settle the fee, so a seler did not need to have a large bread supply in order to take out a buy order.

As with most customs in RL, these choices are the result of a growth process rather a single rational decision.

darlingBri
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:00 am

Postby darlingBri » Wed May 13, 2009 11:45 pm

"Rednael" wrote:Good example. But In this game, it´s not a deposit - you actually LOSE your fee if you delist the item - and then you have to pay it again to list the item again!


Yup. Otherwise you could beat your warehouse limits by "selling" 10,000 bricks at 30 bread each for emergency storage. Some people do this now anyway, even at the current price.

GaSplat
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:28 am
Location: Splat's Crib 159N on Sabah - where the tools of war can be found ;)

Postby GaSplat » Thu May 14, 2009 3:10 am

I always thought of it as a fee charged to whoever had to have their merchandise transported by caravan - a counter to the cost of building ships. So the one with the goods paid the fee. For Buy Orders, they take the fee out of the proceeds. The intent stated by TM was to make it so you could fill a Buy Order without needing bread up front to pay the "transportation fee".

Reed
Posts: 988
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: The 'Mill (no longer)

Postby Reed » Fri May 15, 2009 7:19 pm

"Rednael" wrote:I like your deposit example from WOW, I wish the game worked like that - that would be fair, but IMO to pay the listing fee again just to change your price? to me that promotes imperfections in the market...

From what I remember, you lose your fee in WoW too. Is that different now?

This is to help ensure that people are thoughtful with what they place on the market.

Jaguar
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada

Postby Jaguar » Fri May 15, 2009 7:34 pm

Yes Reed, you do lose your fee :) I posted that a few posts later as I forgot to mention that in the initial post about the WoW example.

Nice to see you here today though :)


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests