They are slowly increasing in number ....

Find a bug on the Nile?
Son of Moose
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

They are slowly increasing in number ....

Postby Son of Moose » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:32 am

This makes no sense at all

I have just re-examined my Combat Log screen and compared the incoming number of troops that were recorded circa 15 hours ago with the present figure (placed within square brackets). There is seemingly no consistency at all in the figures reported - three of the waves have decreased in number while the remaining two have increased in number. The result is that the attacking force has slightly increased in number over the past circa 15 hours. This imho makes no sense at all.

An estimated 1053 [1014] troops from Digitalmediaville (92S) heading toward Mooseopolis006 (3S)! (arrival in 67h 46m/52h 20m)
An estimated 0959 [0942] troops from Digitalmediaville (92S) heading toward Mooseopolis005 (3S)! (arrival in 67h 46m/52h 20m)
An estimated 0263 [0315] troops from Digitalmediaville (92S) heading toward Mooseopolis006 (3S)! (arrival in 67h 47m/52h 21m)
An estimated 0723 [0765] troops from Digitalmediaville (92S) heading toward Mooseopolis005 (3S)! (arrival in 67h 47m/52h 21m)
An estimated 0351 [0331] troops from Digitalmediaville (92S) heading toward Mooseopolis005 (3S)! (arrival in 67h 47m/52h 21m)


Totals: 3349 [3367]

It would be a gross understatement to claim that I am becoming increasingly concerned about the outcome of the eventual battle in 52 hours time. Will the "doubling of incoming soldiers" bug take effect or even double effect seeing that Mooseopolis005 is being attacked by three separate waves? There certainly appear to be many inconsistencies with the current military model and I freely admit that I would feel extremely disappointed to fall victim to someone who is possibly deliberately exploiting a known game bug.

[Edit: I have tried Royal Blue].
Last edited by Son of Moose on Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

joshofet
Posts: 957
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Dead and buried in Basthenew

Postby joshofet » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:03 am

The doubling only occurs if the monument is taken. The wave that hits afterwards returns to the city instead of occupying the monument, and is doubled in the process. Note that I didn't observe myself.

The numbers are just estimates, the actual number may be off, so the observed increase would be just a fluctuation. The average of the different numbers is a better guess.

I am no military expert, but my guess is that you should raise some 2000-3000 defenders if you plan to fight. With the 50% defense bonus it then depends on the number of enemies captured how safe you are.

I don't see how you are victim to bugs in the game. The only possibility is that this player has exploited the bug to raise a large army, but the numbers reported aren't that big, he could just have done this the ordinary way. It is a pity the game has the bug, but this bug doesn't directly pose a problem to players who are attacked, it only make life slightly more easy for those who are preparing a sries of attacks, but only if the monument they capture is recaptured after they have withdrawn their troops.

Since limestone is very cheap, I see players selling at 1 bread, you might consider starting a new monument on an unoccupied spot, or take an undefended high level yourself. It's all in the game ;)
Last edited by joshofet on Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Son of Moose
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

A couple of related queries

Postby Son of Moose » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:07 pm

Hi Josphofet:

I wonder whether Reed's programming is sophisticated enough to accommodate the prospect of injured (from the initial attacking wave) defenders facing the next wave of fresh attacking soldiers. This could be a truly devastating prospect .... I can only imagine (apart from obviously seeking to exploit the "double your soldiers" bug) that this is the only other possible motivation for him sending multiple waves of attackers. Otherwise, he is merely severely diluting the power of his attack ....

Here are a couple of further related queries:

# Am I correct in remembering that charioteers are indeed the most powerful unit in the game (as they are the last to fall in battle)?

# Would a massive numerical advantage ensure minimal casualties?

# Does optimal defense require a mixed array of troops or will a large company of charioteers do the trick?

NoteVan1
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:50 am
Location: Ask Amun Nefer. I'm sure he could tell you.

Postby NoteVan1 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:21 pm

This isn't a bug. Just like when you click on someone's monument to see how many soldiers are there, when you check the combat log the number will continually shift. It is a random number that is +/- 10% of the actual number. Since you are dealing with bigger numbers, there can be a bigger shift in the amount.

I also have my doubts that this person used a bug for this. If I really wanted to, I could easily build up an army that big. I certainly have enough bread to support an army that size for a while and I could easily get the materials needed to make it.

To answer your questions:

# Am I correct in remembering that charioteers are indeed the most powerful unit in the game (as they are the last to fall in battle)?

-yes

# Would a massive numerical advantage ensure minimal casualties?

-yes

# Does optimal defense require a mixed array of troops or will a large company of charioteers do the trick?

-I don't know this for sure, but archers are just about worthless. They always take the highest casualties in any situation.

Fenehk
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:36 pm

Postby Fenehk » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:47 pm

About mixed unit types, spearmen are supposed to be effective against charioteers, and archers are supposed to be good against spearmen. I don't know how that works out in practice, but I imagine if someone has 100 charioteers standing around and someone sends 100 spearmen at them, it might be a pretty even fight even though charioteers are "stronger". And in that case, if the charioteers were backed up by archers, the archers might all die, but before they do they might take out most of the spearmen But like I said, I don't really know... that's just how it seems like it's supposed to work.

abana
Posts: 1506
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:29 am

Postby abana » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:14 pm

Braz Nomar and I ran a much smaller experiment(Aga pointed out that the number were too small to be statistically accurate, but we figured that it provided a small verification), I sent 10 spearmen against his 10 chariots, we each lost 3. But don't forget about the defender bonus. We concluded that the defender bonus was equal to the amount that "spearmen are deadly against chariots"

Son of Moose
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Postby Son of Moose » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:55 pm

Thank you so much for your most helpful replies. :)

I suppose (in the tradition of "rock, paper, scissors") that each class of unit should theoretically be able to outperform another class of unit - although the superiority of the charioteer does seem to be universally recognized.

Therefore it might be best to go with a chariot predominant defense backed up by the other two unit types.

Tinkerbell
Posts: 5415
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:42 am
Location: San Diego, California
Contact:

Postby Tinkerbell » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:55 pm

[NAB] ~ Every time you do a numbers check, you will get about a +/- 10% different number. Combat Log & directly clicking on a quarry plot to check defender numbers.

The game claims:

Charioteers are deadly against Archers.
Archers are deadly against Spearmen.
(Spearmen don't kill anyone ;) )

While Archers get smoked almost totally, they do something ~ like absorb damage & keep your other soldier types alive.

"Blue" is a terrible color choice for the forum, Moose. Try "royalblue". ;)

EDIT: By the way, I am very interested in the battle results also. Your attacker sent waves very close together & the game might not be able to handle it. Some of the incoming soldiers in later waves might even go poof!

REEDIT: You have about 3000 total soldiers at each of your quarry plots. Question ~ Why are you crying (Re: Account hacked)? You can make that many soliders. So can your attacker.
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:32 pm, edited 7 times in total.

Son of Moose
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Postby Son of Moose » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:38 pm

Hi Tink:

My apology - the heading was an unfortunate mistake. :o

Hardly ever bothering to examine the Combat Log (generally because I have seldom bothered attacking anyone except by mutual consensus). Therefore I forgot to notice that the entries below the invasion were 6 or more months old. My bad .... :o

[Suggestion: Maybe the Combat history should be cleared after (say) one month. I am afraid that I had totally forgotten about these "ancient happenings" .... ].

I sincerely hope that a lot of his troops go poof .... :cool:

Agamemnus
Posts: 2081
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:21 am

Postby Agamemnus » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:37 pm

Chariots alone take a tremendous beating against a combined force.

I would advise 50% spearmen, 30% chariots, and 20% archers. It's not known whether the archers really soak up damage or whether they are just bugged. The battle variation is really big. It gets worse if the numbers are small (say 300 v 300 or less) so it is hard to test well.
Last edited by Agamemnus on Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Son of Moose
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Postby Son of Moose » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:33 am

Hi Aga:

Yes - it is highly unlikely that two battles (unless they are carefully used for testing purposes) will ever feature exactly the same array of troops.

I suppose that it is rather clever that the defender has a rough idea (within 10 per cent) of the number of attackers heading his/her way but has no clue as to the composition of the force. It then becomes somewhat of a guessing game ....

homegrown
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:21 pm
Location: Houston TX

Postby homegrown » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:26 pm

"Agamemnus" wrote:It's not known whether the archers really soak up damage or whether they are just bugged.


It's quite apparent what archers do. Before they die horribly, they attack the opposing spears. Killing more of the opposing spears with your archers is how you keep your own chariots alive. It's the old "sacrifice fly rule". You lose some units, sure, but your runners always advance. :)

I don't want to give away all my "secrets" to defense, having racked up 71 now on Theoris (with over 8000 kills). You can "learn" what your various opponents prefer for their troop mix and plan accordingly. For example, I have two at the moment. One is apparently trying to see how "cheap" they can get me, sending mostly spears and archers. A fairly even mix of my own beats him handily. The other trends to having a chariot-heavy force. For him, I make extra spears.

Son of Moose
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Postby Son of Moose » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:32 pm

Hi Homegrown:

From a previous post (possibly in the other related thread), it was mentioned that either you or Aga was previously attacked by the same individual. Do you (or Aga) remember what his "configurations" were in this/these attack/s?

Edit:

Found it (it was Aga):

You were attacked by Menes on 10:00am 06/16/2009
Menes sent 524 1805 680
You had 0 0 0


I will have to go to the game a bit later to see exactly to which units these numbers refer. :o
Last edited by Son of Moose on Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Agamemnus
Posts: 2081
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:21 am

Postby Agamemnus » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:39 pm

Spearmen, archers, then chariots.

Son of Moose
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

An interesting combination ....

Postby Son of Moose » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:20 pm

Hi Aga:

In view of the earlier posts in this thread (and the other related one) that is a rather interesting combination indeed. He has gone archer heavy. I rather hope that he does it again ....

Deguar
Posts: 1017
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:51 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland the Bonnie

Postby Deguar » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:26 pm

A lot depends on your attackers empire make up as well. If they have a cedar town they tend to consider archers "cheap" using more of them. Similarly if they have a bronze town they tend to consider spearmen "cheap".

Son of Moose
Posts: 1719
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Postby Son of Moose » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:40 am

Hi Deguar:

That is a good point ....


Return to “Bugs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests