The nice community...

Off-topic discussions about everything else
Spearthrower
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Bangkok

The nice community...

Postby Spearthrower » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:13 pm

I am wondering if the nice members of this community have another place that they have congregated in?

One more tolerant to open discussion and with a focus on politeness and friendliness.

In many years of posting on forums, I have never seen one person being allowed to bring down an otherwise friendly community.

I know perfectly well that many many people agree with me on this because I have had a slew of PMs about it.

I am a member of a number of other communities on a variety of different subjects, but I would really like to stay in touch with the friendly members of this forum.

If you have such a place where many of you attend with a general focus on CB and a place where off topic discussion is encouraged and is either self-moderated or where common rules of courtesy are expected to be followed, can you please PM me the address?

I look forward to seeing you all there!

Spear

MarkDuffy
Posts: 9232
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:30 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Postby MarkDuffy » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:21 pm

Spearthrower, you are overreacting.

This IS a nice community & we all have our moments. I find it impossible to understand how you allow one poster to destroy your experience & then paint the entire forum with your broad brush. However, you are not alone. Many feel the same as you & I also have been the target of the posters on this forum.

You claim to want Free Speech, only under your terms. Obviously, you haven't done much politics on the internet. ;)

What you really want is Censorship.

I am against Censorship/Banning & definitely FOR Free Speech. Woody doesn't bother me. In fact he claims to have me on ignore (but he doesn't ~ he cheats), cuz he is tired of losing.

Tough times ahead for Woody, cuz the Grownups are back in charge.

Reed has determined that is is best for the forum if I don't do politics here any longer. I am trying my best to follow orders.

Spearthrower
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Bangkok

Postby Spearthrower » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:33 pm

No Mark - I agree that this is a nice community, but I am also of the strong belief that it only takes one to cause a lot of problems in a community if left unchecked.

I am not advocating censorship in any way shape or form and I think you need to realise that you are completely mistaken there. Quite the contrary, I want a forum that is open to discussion, that breeds stimulating conversation and makes people feel free to partake.

I shall not quote the people here, but I have received a number of PMs from people who have stated that they do not feel comfortable to engage in many of the more interesting conversations here as they feel that they will have their character's attacked. Their English is not native and they do not think they can defend themselves so they instead do not speak. Is this the kind of freedom of speech you imply?

Simply this IS censorship alright - of the bullying kind. I refuse to allow a bully to have control. If the powers that be wont do anything, then I will find somewhere to move to and hope that others can be convinced to come too.

I have seen it happen before mate and I do not want to see a group of like-minded people go down the pan due to the abusive actions of one member.

It's not overreacting, it's reacting to abuse. Some people choose to accept or ignore it, but there are plenty who don't feel this way. It's your choice if you wish to accept this - but given that I am a member of a number of communities where free speech is advocated and people are not in any way impolite to each other, I fail to see how we can live under the illusion that this can maintain "the friendliest forum" award that many people seem to assume resides here.

I know that a significant portion of this community has another place, and I am inviting myself.... (if they'll have me) because I think that the majority of people here are very interesting to talk to - otherwise I wouldn't be here.... I am not here just to ram my voice down people's throats and to decry other people's politics - this is, to the best of my knowledge, not a political party's forum and should not be allowed to act as a manifesto for one.
Last edited by Spearthrower on Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rubicon
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:29 pm
Location: Manchester, NH USA

Postby Rubicon » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:28 pm

"Stick and stones...", spearthrower. Not only are they just words, they are essentially faceless, anonymous words under this format. So, my advice is to chill and not take things so seriously. Also, IMHO you must expect this type of reaction to political or religious discussion (unfortunately). I have very strong political views that I rarely ever mention in online postings. I just don't have the time, energy or inclination to get into the verbal jousting. :o

MarkDuffy
Posts: 9232
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:30 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Postby MarkDuffy » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:37 pm

Spearthrower, Your quote from the Madam Speaker thread:

Spearthrower wrote:What kind of **** is this "dying of the light" rubbish? Just who on god's earth do you actually think you are you jumped up little ****? One of those guys that's all mouth when they're standing behind a protective position - i.e. the internet. You come here to vent, to shore up your emasculated ego because no one can see you and no once can get to you. Why don't you just go and buy an extension and give us all a break?


Did you call Woody a "little ****"? :rolleyes:

I laugh at holier-than-thou types who fail to see it also in themselves.

I have been such a target.

bexgames
Posts: 1458
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: riverside, california

Postby bexgames » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:56 pm

Spear, or anyone else...I live in a very big city, in every large city, there is always that crazy person downtown who stands at the corner, yelling and fighting with no one.
At first, that person terrified me, and I went out of my way to not come close to them..I guess I thought they would grab me or something.. :o
After awhile though, I got used to them, and realized they are harmless if you ignore them.
Soon, I would walk right by them, having a "real" conversation with my buddies, or drinking my cappuccino..and not even realize they were there.

Well, it's a big forum. We have our crazies. But, you can still have a "real" conversation, and ignore the crazies...even in the same thread...just don't let the crazy drive you away.

ps. after the 9/11 thread, I no longer partake in anything polictical. what's the point? too many I don't agree with, and it's not like I'm going to change their views, so, let them go vent on their loved ones,... not me. :rolleyes:

Spearthrower
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Bangkok

Postby Spearthrower » Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:18 pm

MarkDuffy wrote:Did you call Woody a "little ****"? :rolleyes:

I laugh at holier-than-thou types who fail to see it also in themselves.

I have been such a target.


Actually it was "jumped up little ****" ;)

Holier than thou?

I know very well that you appreciate the difference Mark.

Woody aims his invectives at EVERYONE, I aimed mine solely at the bully.

I have never spoken a single word out of place against anyone in this forum, as well you know. If you want to make sure, you can check back through my posts. I have treated people with respect and always tried to be helpful or to generate humour and interest. In this situation what I have done is to respond to the bully in kind.

If you want to make some point in relation to your own situation, I don't think that equating yourself to this bully is either a) helpful or b) true.... but if you want to form some kind of fellowship of people that have been spoken out against due to harming other's feelings, then do feel free. But at least please acknowledge the happenings prior to the quote.... like years of tirades and abuses from Woody. It's treating people like they treat you, because unfortunately, with some people there's nothing else they understand.


Rubicon: You are right of course. I am not taking it personally, I know Woody knows nothing about me personally and he also knows that I have spent years here and have followed many of the posts.

However, it is not my feelings that have been hurt here, it is simply a case of questioning the purpose. People use forums for a variety of reasons: forums are places to discuss things, for others they are there to meet people and make friends - for an unfortunate few they are there to bully, taunt and create problems for people.

Given that I am in the first and second category, it simply doesn't work to have a person of the third category. His enjoyment detracts from mine. That is always the way with bullies: their enjoyment lies in harming others' enjoyment. I have seen any number of people get upset over the years here thanks to Woody. Really, the entire banning of religious and political threads is down to him baiting people with his absurd tirades littered with personally abusive invectives. That is ridiculous - why is it that other people here maintain a rational and polite level of debate?

I am interested in achieving a solution here for the betterment of the community. The simple fact is that if we all behave like Woody then what happens? I bet even Woody wouldn't want to post here as can be seen from his tanglement with me in other threads. I am not saying I am proud of speaking to him in the same way, but he deserves to see the kind of treatment he gives others here.... perhaps this will in turn lead to something being done about it from above which apparently seems the only solution as he doesn't seem capable of controlling himself!


Bexgames: Great analogy! :D Made me think of the cat woman from the Simpsons...... again, I totally agree with you. What can we do though when he keeps politicising threads? I don't see why any number of other members are forced to bite their own tongues, turn the other cheek and put up with him. Why should the rest of the community fit in to his eccentricities? Cat Women don't have broadband connection!
Last edited by Spearthrower on Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MarkDuffy
Posts: 9232
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:30 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Postby MarkDuffy » Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:24 pm

Spearthrower wrote:Woody aims his invectives at EVERYONE, I aimed mine solely at the bully.


Well, my only complaint about Woody is that he is not a fan of TM games & I wonder why he is actually here. I have seen his kind in many venues on different subjects. Be that as it may...

I have never spoken a single word out of place against anyone in this forum, as well you know.

Actually you have dumped HARD on new players who have had problems with C4.

You are outta line here, Spearthrower. Sorry, but that is how I see it.

(And I'm amazed that I am supporting Woody. Who knew! :D )

Peace, Bro! :)

EDIT: Had to throw in some beautiful music here. ;)
Last edited by MarkDuffy on Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spearthrower
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Bangkok

Postby Spearthrower » Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:32 pm

MarkDuffy wrote:Actually you have dumped HARD on new players who have had problems with C4.
Peace, Bro! :)


That's not true Mark, I know exactly what thread you are talking about (the great: "Dont buy this game, it sucks!!!222one" thread and you have distorted that big time. I did not "dump hard" on anyone at all. Unless you count me saying things like "Well, as you clearly don't like this type of game at all, I really fail to see why you want to come and post on the official forums - you must know the kind of reaction you are going to get." as "dump hard"??

You have obviously also ignored the countless posts I have made there trying to help others in the Community Technical subforum.

Feel free to continue this line though Mark, it will be fascinating if you wish to stand up for Woody given that you have been the target of his abuse many, many times.... and that it was only today that I told someone else that you and I had never crossed words and nor were we ever likely to!

Don't worry though - as you can see, I am perfectly able to respond politely to people criticising me, unlike Woody... which, you will note, is my point.

MarkDuffy
Posts: 9232
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:30 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Postby MarkDuffy » Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:53 pm

Spearthrower wrote:Feel free to continue this line though Mark, it will be fascinating if you wish to stand up for Woody given that you have been the target of his abuse many, many times....


Target of Woody? I OWN him! ;)

...and that it was only today that I told someone else that you and I had never crossed words and nor were we ever likely to!

Perhaps this is where we differ. I love the battle. Debates are the presentation of an ARGUMENT. THAT is the technical term.

If you show fear, or resort to whining, then you LOSE. Especially in the political environment. Tough skins are important in debating.

Holding grudges gets you nowhere. This was my original point. Clean the slate after each argument. Tomorrow is another day.

I am a professional & Woody is NOT! ;)

Woody got your goat & won. Hurts, no? Let it go, Spearthrower & definitely do not blame the forum. Reed is doing the very best he can.

Spearthrower
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Bangkok

Postby Spearthrower » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:04 pm

Sorry, we have a different view of things.

I debate and discuss with people on many forums and in life.

We do not argue.

Further to that, discussions are not supported with ad hominem attacks, blatant oddities, usage of the word "idiot" or any other character denigration to prove a point.

Perhaps if you subscribe to the same system as Woody then you have a better level of appreciation of these techniques? I find them uninspiring! ;)


Please understand something perfectly well though Mark... this has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with me: Perhaps it's a cultural thing... or perhaps a generational thing but it doesnt "get my goat" and it doesnt "hurt". It's almost like you are talking a different language here but it does potentially illuminate some of the "styles of debate" that I have seen here.

I'm afraid that I was taught that logic and evidence were key to debating rather than who could shout the loudest and scratch the hardest.

If you think that going at it like cats in a bag is either fun or "friendly" then we definitely have different definitions!! ;)


Anyway, as refreshing and interesting as this is, it is going off track.

Whether you find this "battle" entertaining or not, I personally do not. (I come here to relax and chat over things, I have a hard enough day at work as it is) Nor does anyone else I know.... and I prefer to engage with people who use rational discourse when discussing things - I don't know if that makes me strange. If that is not on offer here, then I am happy (as can be noted in my initial post) to move along. I know *very* well that there are more than a few who agree, so I am looking to see where they reside because not many of them post here much (unsurprisingly).
Last edited by Spearthrower on Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MarkDuffy
Posts: 9232
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:30 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Postby MarkDuffy » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:09 pm

By the way, Spearthrower, I'm sorry to inform you...

However, my Madam Speaker thread WAS a political thread. I was layered & multidimensional, but it was CLEARLY political.

Woody knew it. ;)

Spearthrower
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Bangkok

Postby Spearthrower » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:13 pm

Then Mark, I am afraid to say that you are both as bad as each other.... and all the other people in the thread got caught in the cross fire because of it. Other people there were not in any way propounding a political stance - something you guys over there seem to fail to realise sometimes is that the rest of the world just isn't interested in your politics. I was genuinely happy to see a woman in a position of authority as I am sure many others were.

Really, this just drives home the point that this place is not where I want to be! ;) I had already worked that one out though, don't worry.... I am just trying to make sure that I get in touch with the people who do want to have the same kind of forum as me.

As a sidenote, that potential forum has got bugger all to do with Republicans or Democrats or any other political party that has absolutely no meaning to me and never will have.

Rnett
Posts: 1593
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:21 am
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Postby Rnett » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:13 pm

I thought political threads were a no-no. :confused:

Spearthrower
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Bangkok

Postby Spearthrower » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:15 pm

Rnett wrote:I thought political threads were a no-no. :confused:


If only that were so.

bexgames
Posts: 1458
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: riverside, california

Postby bexgames » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:17 pm

Spearthrower wrote:Whether you find this "battle" entertaining or not, I personally do not. (I come here to relax and chat over things, I have a hard enough day at work as it is) Nor does anyone else I know.... and I prefer to engage with people who use rational discourse when discussing things - I don't know if that makes me strange.

no, it doesn't make you strange, it's why 97% of the members of this forum are here.
If that is not on offer here, then I am happy (as can be noted in my initial post) to move along. I know *very* well that there are more than a few who agree, so I am looking to see where they reside because not many of them post here much (unsurprisingly).

you'll find this wherever you go spear, unless it's heavily moderated...and you seem a bit too passionate for that kind of nonsense.
but, if you do find a place where it's not filled with silly teenagers, it's not heavily moderated, seems to have an above average intelligence, like here, but, there are no crazies..then by all means, let me know.
Last edited by bexgames on Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MarkDuffy
Posts: 9232
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:30 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Postby MarkDuffy » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:31 pm

Spearthrower wrote:Then Mark, I am afraid to say that you are both as bad as each other....


I believe there is a difference. I make my points & withdraw. I understand my opponent & myself also. You deny your own self & justify your return volleys & they were so much worse, than Woody's.

This is my complaint & why I jumped into this thread in the first place. Politics is NOT for the faint of heart & there are NO innocents. I expect my opponent to respond negatively. I do not blame him for his responses. However, I DO believe that I have Honor in my debating.

Scroll is your friend. Use it.

and all the other people in the thread got caught in the cross fire because of it. Other people there were not in any way propounding a political stance - something you guys over there seem to fail to realise sometimes is that the rest of the world just isn't interested in your politics. I was genuinely happy to see a woman in a position of authority as I am sure many others were.

Then you should have ignored the political aspects. Only you allow a thread to be hijacked by your responses. Some posts need to be ignored if you do not care about tangential issues.

The main purpose WAS to celebrate Speaker Pelosi's new position & it also WAS a celebration of the REAL Virtue of the US Constitution. But, she IS a Democrat & the republicans have nothing left but to dump on "San Francisco Liberal".

Pitiful, if you ask me, but republicans have nothing left. They just got totally swept to the gutter in the last election. bush has been rebuked by the US Military & is "lucky" to still have his job. Meanwhile, US Soldiers in Iraq continue to die in record numbers from the failed bush regime policies that have so dishonored this once proud nation, at home & in the community of nations. Woody is the forum spokesperson for a dead political party.

Spearthrower
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Bangkok

Postby Spearthrower » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:32 pm

See, that's just it Bexgames. I am a member of 4 other forums - unfortunately not game related.... and I have never seen anything like this on them. Ok, sometimes a new comer will blaze in in a flash of troll-like glory, but people just ignore until they get banned.

Any real disagreement gets taken to PM - we're not angels! However, none of those forums are connected.... they all have varying levels of moderation but none of them too heavy.

I do realise that there is a vast majority of teen driven forums that absolutely have to be moderated and this forum is in no way comparable... but then I doubt we'd be sitting here discussing it if that were the case!! :)

So, I dont find it particularly strange to consider that there are places that are not gestappo moderated, mostly adults or at least mature people, no crazies beyond the normal lunacy levels ( :D ).... (ok, the intelligence bit - you got me there!! :p ) I would guess from personal experience that there are a large number of them and they also absolutely do not tolerate insulting behaviour. In fact, the majority of forums don't tolerate the last part.

I'll get back to you on it! :)

Spearthrower
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:08 am
Location: Bangkok

Postby Spearthrower » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:38 pm

MarkDuffy wrote:I believe there is a difference. I make my points & withdraw. I understand my opponent & myself also. You deny your own self & justify your return volleys & they were so much worse, than Woody's.


You are failing to look back a little past that thread. I already stated my purpose some time ago.

MarkDuffy wrote:This is my complaint & why I jumped into this thread in the first place. Politics is NOT for the faint of heart & there are NO innocents. I expect my opponent to respond negatively. I do not blame him for his responses. However, I DO believe that I have Honor in my debating.


Seemingly on this forum, politics are for those who intend to injure irrelevent of whether the other person is interested in the political side or not.

MarkDuffy wrote:Scroll is your friend. Use it.


Oh I see...... ignore the bullies when they're punching the other kids?

MarkDuffy wrote: The rest of the stuff you said.


See though? There we go again. This is an international forum and the infighting of American political parties seems to dominate any discussion. If I start to debate about the environment, suddenly I am being called a "Liberal" (which incidentally in my language only has positive connotations) and being tarred with a brush that has nothing to do with me. When I talk about goverments not meeting their quotas - I am talking about the World, not about Bush. I am afraid that my scope on these things is not referring to one country...and even if it was, it wouldn't be the USA as it's not my home.

This is why it's unacceptable. The vast majority of this forum are left in the cold because a) they don't speak the native language well enough to offer themselves up to the abuse they will get here from stating their point of view and b) because the argument gets twisted into the national politics of a country they don't belong to.

AEster
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: somewere on this planet with a bag of M&M's

Postby AEster » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:40 pm

I think I'm one of the non-natives Spear is talking about................. this forumis a way to the world. I'm not offended bij Woody. I don't take it personal what he says, but it's so frustrating too feel that you can't get out the words you want to say. :eek:

BTWIn Belgium they don't speak with this kind of hollow politicians............
they put them in a "Cordon Sanitaire" wich basicly means: don't talk with them, don't nagotiate with them and don't drink a glass of bear with them. :D

I don't know if this is a good sollution............................ :(


Return to “The Outside World”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests