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Hmm, I prefer clown.

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:17 pm
by Pontius Pilatus
"Tinkerbell" wrote:Troll



Clowns vs Clones makes a better title when we make it into that movie. ;)

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:23 pm
by Lost Wanderer
"SlipperyJim" wrote:But I did one thing differently: I asked first. "Would you like a small welcome package?" He answered that he would, so I loaded up the boats and clicked Send.


That's great Jim. If everyone was like you, the problem would be solved for me.

"SlipperyJim" wrote:The anti-gifts crowd would do well to recognize that gifters are simply trying to be nice. Okay, you don't like gifting. I get it. Now can we throw around a little less venom on the subject? I seriously doubt that gifters are trying to ruin anyone's game ...


This is not the first time a player has had their game enjoyment significantly altered by a 'kind' gifter.

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24169&page=3

If gifters are really trying to be helpful, as seems to be their shield mantra, and I'm hurt, not helped, by receiving a gift, I suppose I tend to be a bit pissy at the person who insists that they were helping me when they really hurt me and refuse to acknowledge or care that they hurt me in the name of helping me. It's kinda like Obamacare or the economic stimulus package.

"Antikuity" wrote:I, mineself, look at it as a neighborhood. When one moves in, the neighbors of the new one, if they are kindly people, that is, visit and bring pies and cakes or e'en full meals to aid the new one to get settled. That is why I gift. I do nae send thousands or hundreds, but only small amounts.


I understand that you don't send hundreds or thousands, but others do. Imagine your brand new house full of rotting food because your neighbors didn't bring you a pie, they brought the entire store. That's more like the gifting I've experienced. So now instead of a house I can enjoy, I have to clean up the mess made by my friendly neighbors before I can enjoy my house...any you never quite get rid of the smell. Then your neighbors come over and want to know what your problem is for not properly appreciating their 'help'. That's the scourge gifting can bring.

"Antikuity" wrote:I canna think that anyone could hae played a whole game here without someone at sometime filling a partial ship or sending an extra hundred or so of a good just because they appreciate the trade.


You're right. People send me stuff I don't ask for frequently. So I have to alter my game play to send things back. I guess I'm one of the few who wants to play a game with his own resources to see what I can accomplish.

"Antikuity" wrote:Friendship is nae dead, I would think, e'en if it is a game.


NO is an incredibly friendly game. I have gifted before and will do so again, when someone asks for help.

"Antikuity" wrote:It is ye game, so if ye wish to gift, it should be ye option. If ye do nae wish to, then ye also hae that option. If the receiver does nae appreciate ye kindness, then that is their choice, also. They can just dump the goods on someone else or trade them for something they do need, or several hundred other things, lol.


This attitude of 'screw them if they don't want the gift, that's their problem' is the reason for the venom Jim. All the while, calling it kindness...

"Pontius Pilatus" wrote:Gifts are beautiful, but you turned it into a cheat, now leave us be.


One more gifter who doesn't give a damn about anybody's enjoyment of the game except his own.

Your post was spot on Jim, and I sincerely appreciate your willingness to see others perspectives, and recognize that gifting can detract from enjoyment of the game. Some of your fellow gifters missed the mark, by miles. Thus, the venom continues.

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:15 pm
by Tinkerbell
Excellent post, Lost Wanderer!

If the gifters really wanna help New Players or other players, they only need to help us row the Nile boat & not gift, especially not slaughter gift.

Respond to smaller trades on the wall before trading with larger traders.

Don't go on the wall & hog every trade possible just cuz you can. Show a bit of restraint. Don't be a fast clicker. Wait for a lower level player to jump in.

I believe one of the problems with wall trades is the "me first 'rule'". There has been more than one occassion where I wanted to ignore a high level wall trader cuz a lower level trader was second to respond, especially cuz the higher level player doesn't really need the trade, just moving stuff around. Sucking all the oxygen outta the place.

I myself prefer to do smaller wall trades before higher trades for exactly that reason.

New Players do NOT need gifts. They need TRADES. They need to know that they can go on the Wall & not be crowded out & ignored. New Players are not fast clickers yet & they deserve a chance to trade FIRST! It is very easy for a New Player or even a low level trader to give up on the wall & never come back.

Please, everyone, join us on the Trade Wall & let's make the Nile really rock!

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:16 pm
by Pontius Pilatus
"Lost Wanderer" wrote:

One more gifter who dosen't give a damn about anybody's enjoyment of the game except his own.



That was a response to my: Gifts are beautiful, but you turned it into a cheat, now leave us be.


Explain! Did I give you something, did I harass you? What does that mean, is giving people stuff a crime? Are you another Tinkerbell mouthpiece? Or another clone.
Why this personal reproach? Why the slurry "one more gifter"(criminal).

Pal you tried your best, but you are hostile to the gift, your arguments are moot.

I like gifts, most people I know in game like gifts, don't tell us we are a problem, I think the dissident anti-gifters have a problem, well choke on it.

Cheers!

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:25 pm
by Tinkerbell
"Pontius Pilatus" wrote:That was a response to my: Gifts are beautiful, but you turned it into a cheat, now leave us be.


Explain! Did I give you something, did I harass you? What does that mean, is giving people stuff a crime? Are you another Tinkerbell mouthpiece? Or another clone.
Why this personal reproach? Why the slurry "one more gifter"(criminal).

Pal you tried your best, but you are hostile to the gift, your arguments are moot.

I like gifts, most people I know in game like gifts, don't tell us we are a problem, I think the dissident anti-gifters have a problem, well choke on it.

Cheers!


Troll

Well, well. Only one word left in your vocabulary.

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:30 pm
by Pontius Pilatus
"Tinkerbell" wrote:Troll


Still amazing, considering the one braincell you have to share with all your clones. :rolleyes:

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:55 pm
by Tinkerbell
"Pontius Pilatus" wrote:Still amazing, considering the one braincell you have to share with all your clones. :rolleyes:


Troll

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:28 pm
by Lost Wanderer
"Pontius Pilatus" wrote:Explain! Did I give you something, did I harass you?


You posted a view opposed to mine in this forum. Subsequently, I pointed out that your view was opposed to mine. If dissension is too much for you to bear, perhaps you shouldn't post.

"Pontius Pilatus" wrote:What does that mean, is giving people stuff a crime?


I don't believe that it is a crime, and have never said so. In fact, if you read my post fully, you would have read that I have gifted and will continue to gift. When asked.

"Lost Wanderer" wrote:NO is an incredibly friendly game. I have gifted before and will do so again, when someone asks for help.


"Pontius Pilatus" wrote:Are you another Tinkerbell mouthpiece? Or another clone.


If it's easier for you to believe that anyone who disagrees with you is a 'clone', then you may do so. However, I think cuts you off from any basis for discussion of opposing views, and limits your ability to participate effectively in a forum.

"Pontius Pilatus" wrote:Why this personal reproach? Why the slurry "one more gifter"(criminal).


Personal, no; I don't know you. View centered, absolutely. Again, if you prefer to not have your views characterized by a dissenting opinion, you might be better off not posting them. The slur (you really should have read my entire post) addresses gifters who don't care whether the receiver wants a gift. If that's you, then I believe you deserve to be slurred for not caring about your fellow player's game experience.

"Pontius Pilatus" wrote:Pal you tried your best, but you are hostile to the gift, your arguments are moot.


Your understanding of my position is poor, Pal. I'm not hostile towards gifts, I'm hostile toward gifters who aren't considerate enough to ask if a gift would be appreciated. Of course my arguments are moot, if they weren't we would have no opportunity for an exchange of ideas. It would be nice if substance carried more weight than bluster, but there I go again with another moot statement.


"Pontius Pilatus" wrote:I like gifts, most people I know in game like gifts, don't tell us we are a problem, I think the dissident anti-gifters have a problem, well choke on it.


Excellent. I suggest you continue to accept and give gifts. If you prefer not to be challenged regarding gifting, I suggest you ask the giftee if they wish to receive a gift before sending it. Of course we choke on it; our warehouses can't handle everything you want to force on us. The apparent fact that it is too much for you to even consider that someone wouldn't want your 'gift' is the reason why I characterize you as:

"Lost Wanderer" wrote:One more gifter who doesn't give a damn about anybody's enjoyment of the game except his own.


"Pontius Pilatus" wrote:Cheers!


Right back at ya! ;)

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:54 pm
by OhhJim
"Tinkerbell" wrote:New Players do NOT need gifts. They need TRADES.


Exactly.

Nothing wrong with gifting someone who wants gifts. Lots wrong with forcing gifts on someone who doesn't want them. Nobody should have the ability to force a person to play a certain way.

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:48 am
by Mr Ears
Absolute nonsense. 99% of the new players are happy to receive gifts and happy to be able to move on faster.

And if somebody doesn't appreciate a gift, he can still ask the gifter nicely to stop to send further gifts. And the gifter won't send further gifts. It's that easy. I can see no problem at all.

Gifts are a fine thing for the recipient and also for the senders, who find a way to do something useful with their overstocking rather than just letting it come out of their ears.

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:34 am
by Antikuity
"Tinkerbell" wrote:I myself prefer to do smaller wall trades before higher trades for exactly that reason.

Not intending to argue with ye, m'lord, but when I was a new one and tried to get onto the wall, the 'uppity-ups' as I began calling them did nae hae the time of day for this simple humble woman. I began by scrolling all the ones close to mine nome and trading with them. The wall is nae a 'friendly' place for the new ones here. Howe'er, if any hae e'er seen me on the wall, they would say that I do trades with the young players for the 100 of something or other since I recall mine horror trying to get a trade done. I realize this hae nae to do with gifting as being described here. I hae to say tho that the wall is nae now as it was then. Things are greatly different.
On the gifting, I saw posted that the warehouse would be oe'erstuffed and the items would rot, I hae to take that with a grain of salt cause any warehouse will hold 99,999 of the raws and ne'er ruin the goods. It is only that the player does nae hae to search and trade which would ruin the challenge for them. I do agree that the challenge would be changed, but nae that the 'gifter' is trying to hurt another. If I hae sent a gift, I do nae hae the attitude of 'screw them and their feelings do nae matter'. I would expect them to tell me to nae gift anymore, lol, which I would nae do anyways. One 'gifting' is enough for any one player.
Another point I hae noticed. The huge gifts are usually to the ones who hae gone immortal and returned and are from the immortal's old friends who know what he/she hae hae in the past and are attempting to (whether they realize it or nae) restore the new one to their 'before' status. They do nae think of it as cheating, but giving to the returned one.
NO should post the rule of gifts. That any here accused of gifting be immediately removed from the game and they also should begin tracking down the multiple accounts ones as that is mine biggest gripes here at present. I know of one that hae more than 15 different characters by now.
This one is also known fas a 'big gifter'. I am sure that there are more, too.
Thank ye for ye time.

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:33 pm
by Kalani
ok as a new player and a veteran wow player, I'll put in my input.

I think that gifts can be very useful to a new player if they are kept small. I certainly wouldn't argue with some bricks or bread...especially seeing as it seems so hard to keep enough at the beginning of the game.
However for other stuff, I think I'll use buy orders to see if I can get small amounts of stuff (such as 100 of an item) for lower amounts instead of the insane amounts of items that people put in the market.
As a wow player, I know I appreciate it more when I don't have a ton of money on a new character, but perhaps an item or two to make the first 20 levels less of a grind.

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:22 pm
by Ivy
On the Theoris wall today there was a new player looking for a few pots and baskets, asking for a small gift to help get them to level 2. About 5 minutes later, he/she posted to ask people to stop as that was enough... there were 15 different types of goods coming, a total of 30,000 items. :eek:

This player was looking for just a few goods, yet they received thousands and no one even asked before sending. That goes way beyond reasonable!

Contrary to what some may believe, it is not just returning Immortals who are on the receiving end and gifting to new players does not consist just of small welcome presents. This excessive gifting has got out of hand.

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:31 pm
by Tinkerbell
"Ivy" wrote:Contrary to what some may believe, it is not just returning Immortals who are on the receiving end and gifting to new players does not consist just of small welcome presents. This excessive gifting has got out of hand.


and Jeff Fiske (Tilted Mill) is nowhere to be found. Ignoring all these threads.

:(

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:36 pm
by Muad'Dib
"Ivy" wrote:On the Theoris wall today there was a new player looking for a few pots and baskets, asking for a small gift to help get them to level 2. About 5 minutes later, he/she posted to ask people to stop as that was enough... there were 15 different types of goods coming, a total of 30,000 items. :eek:

This player was looking for just a few goods, yet they received thousands and no one even asked before sending. That goes way beyond reasonable!

Contrary to what some may believe, it is not just returning Immortals who are on the receiving end and gifting to new players does not consist just of small welcome presents. This excessive gifting has got out of hand.


Altho i have nothing against the "Care package", if 10 or more players would send the same stuff at once, you still have far to much goods to go around with. Maybe TM could build in a "agree with trade" button to prevent this? Seems to me that more and more players having trouble with the gifting part on the Nile...

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:41 pm
by Tinkerbell
"Muad'Dib" wrote:Altho i have nothing against the "Care package", if 10 or more players would send the same stuff at once, you still have far to much goods to go around with. Maybe TM could build in a "agree with trade" button to prevent this? Seems to me that more and more players having trouble with the gifting part on the Nile...


Unfortunately, TM has abandoned further programming on Nile.

What we need is a bit of MORALITY from TM. To make a few statements.

We as the Nile Community can take care of the rest.

Just DO it, Tilted Mill. Please come out from under your ROCK!

:mad:

Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:07 pm
by Cazy
Gifts are a natural part of this game and of its community. It's in the blood. One of the specifics of the people attracted to this kind of game.

The problem is that gifts should be made with responsibility... which is another characteristic of the Nilers, only that people must be made aware of all aspects involved in gifting. I'm sure everyone's doing it with best intentions in mind and if they're told "ask before sending a gift" they will comply.

I see people are listening and changing their way of approaching gifts. It's not about not making them but about making sure the receiver wants them. I guess it's the forumers responsibility to spread the word about this subject on the walls too for people not checking the forums.

Yeah, making gifts can ruin some players game, but the solution should not be repressive, it's not in the spirit of this game. Making people aware, that's closer to the Nile Online way of thinking.

And if we're here... I'm trying to grow without any gifts in my newest life too. It's going well so far. There were only a few small gifts I received without my consent but I was able to pay them back shortly after and the goods were all actually useful.

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:15 pm
by Tinkerbell
"Cazy" wrote:Gifts are a natural part of this game and of its community. It's in the blood. One of the specifics of the people attracted to this kind of game.


LOL !!!

I guess then that the gifters, since they are sooo "kind", won't mind if we help ourselves to their monuments to get gifts!

...and no need to ask first, either...

PvP for Gifts!

Thank You Gifters!

:D

...uncap us, TM, and we will help the old gifters get rid of their excess goods...the Honorable way...the way you designed the game to be...

.

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:40 pm
by Mr Ears
"Tinkerbell" wrote:...uncap us, TM


You already know how the uncapping works.....you post the instructions all the time! :D

Where did you get that information, I did not say any of it.

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:27 pm
by Pontius Pilatus
"Lost Wanderer" wrote:Excellent. I suggest you continue to accept and give gifts. If you prefer not to be challenged regarding gifting, I suggest you ask the giftee if they wish to receive a gift before sending it. Of course we choke on it; our warehouses can't handle everything you want to force on us. The apparent fact that it is too much for you to even consider that someone wouldn't want your 'gift' is the reason why I characterize you as:

another gifter etc.

Brilliant. I have said I like to gift and receive gifts. Where did I say that I forced any amount on anybody? Your interpretation.
I said in my experience everybody I dealt with liked gifts and I receive loads of gifts from people I gifted earlier.
Well choke on this: maybe we replaced the rigid tradesystem with the cold WTT 1:1 and 1:3 with a more friendly way of reciprocating gifts. As a result we feel like friends helping eachother out instead of competitors on a temporary truce, ready to outdo eachother on the next turn.

The gifting society is a better society. :cool:

Cheers!