Divine Intervention And Folklore

Everything Medieval Mayor that doesn't fit elsewhere
GueulEclator
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Divine Intervention And Folklore

Postby GueulEclator » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:10 pm

It's safe to assume that Medieval times were the crossroad between the old, antic world full of myth, legends, ancient knowledge and folklore And the ''modern'', more ''rational'' world. This means that both these world/mentality cohabited and fused to give us the medieval society.

Now one of the most entertaining features in Zeus/Poseidon were, for many people, the gods. After the long process of building a temple, you were being rewarded by the myriad of bonus the god granted. And seeing HIM walking into your city, demonstration his powers, was most satisfying. Especially when He was coming with a creature. It was utmost rewarding.
Just like seeing a hero beat a frightening creature for you.

How will this game handle that? Not just the divine part, but also more folkloric stuff like creatures, magic...
I would especially be interested by the different magical beings that you could encounter in game, and how magic would be handled. I've red what Chris said about the love potion part... but will it be limited to a few shops that would otherwise sell plain furniture if magic wasn't present?
Or will the authentic medieval folklore have a deeper impact on the game mechanism ?
Last edited by GueulEclator on Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:24 pm

Chris did address the use of magic somewhere, either in the two articles linked on the MM website or in one of his posts here on the forum.

He mentioned that magic will probably be in the form of some sort of "blessing" etc., like "love", etc., if I recall correctly. It's going to be minimal in that sort of way.

I haven't seen mention of any mythical creatures anywhere. Frankly, I wouldn't care for them myself.

GueulEclator
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Postby GueulEclator » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:30 pm

"Keith" wrote:Chris did address the use of magic somewhere, either in the two articles linked on the MM website or in one of his posts here on the forum.

He mentioned that magic will probably be in the form of some sort of "blessing" etc., like "love", etc., if I recall correctly. It's going to be minimal in that sort of way.

I haven't seen mention of any mythical creatures anywhere. Frankly, I wouldn't care for them myself.


Well those magic/divine/folklore stuff were big parts of all the previous city building games, so I would be rather surprised if it wasn't this time.

GueulEclator
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Postby GueulEclator » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:20 pm

By the way, I've noticed a dragon on the Main artwork. So wouldn't that confirm that there will be folklore creatures?

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Postby Keith » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:52 pm

Not really, but you never know. The explanation Chris gave on "magic" seemed to downplay that possibility.

Found the post: http://tiltedmill.com/forums/showpost.php?p=283028&postcount=3
Last edited by Keith on Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GueulEclator
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Postby GueulEclator » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:13 pm

I see. I think I remember reading this. However what he says leaves a lot of room for the imagination/interpretation. He did say magic would be subtle, but magic isn't the only supernatural feature.

All he said about supernatural features is that it won't be ''over the top'', which is pretty vague and leaves a lot to determine. Adding folkloric creatures like leprechaun that dance in some wood corner, or a few angels that fly sometime near your city, isn't what I would call over the top.

Gargoyle, angels... That would be cool if these were integrated in a subtle way. Not in a fantasy fashion, but more of an ''old tale'' fashion. Especially these since they were very present in people's imaginary.
I'm not talking about orcs, elf, giants. More like small/human sized creatures from the legend of folklore of that time, that use subtle powers, like they were believed to (small stuff like growing a tree, blessing someone, cursing someone...)

Subtle supernatural, extra-human stuff is always good, and doesn't make it high fantasy in any way. More like low fantasy at best, if not simply folkloric.
It would really help us immerse in the game, since for people of that time, those things existed and took part in their everyday life. They would associate many things to supernatural manifestation (mixed with natural/rational thoughts), so in their eyes and mind, they existed, although in a subtle way.
Last edited by GueulEclator on Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby GueulEclator » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:33 pm

When will we get more hints about the whole supernatural part of the game?

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Jeff Fiske
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Postby Jeff Fiske » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:44 pm

"GueulEclator" wrote:When will we get more hints about the whole supernatural part of the game?


Not to annoy you, but I could point out that "Science" was often seen as some sort of tricky or magic during that period. What was supernatural at the time covers a broad range of subjects.

Certainly a fertile ground for gameplay features and debate in a medieval game and I think you are on the right track in terms of the sensibilities of how these elements could be tied in. Even in Hinterland we tried to take a more archetypal or perhaps pagan approach than a Tolkien/D&D Monster slaying approach.

I think a clearer picture will start emerging soon..
Last edited by Jeff Fiske on Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

arcan
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Postby arcan » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:24 pm

"Jeff Fiske" wrote:Not to annoy you, but I could point out that "Science" was often seen as some sort of tricky or magic during that period. What was supernatural at the time covers a broad range of subjects.

Certainly a fertile ground for gameplay features and debate in a medieval game and I think you are on the right track in terms of the sensibilities of how these elements could be tied in. Even in Hinterland we tried to take a more archetypal or perhaps pagan approach than a Tolkien/D&D Monster slaying approach.

I think a clearer picture will start emerging soon..


This could be used as a way to hae a kind of tech tree but limit the reserch with the educationnal level of the citizen. If you don't educate them enough but make too much research or have too advanced workers, they would be treated as sorcerers by the other citizens, (ore the mayor, aka us, be thrown out for sorcery)...

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Chris Beatrice
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Postby Chris Beatrice » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:23 pm

Another great topic... two aspects of this I wanted to comment on:

First off, yeah, the convergence of folklore, traditional beliefs, more evolved pagan systems still flourishing (Scandinavia), plus the (at least superficially) dominant Christian church, as well as Judaism, all this mixed together to form Medieval society, as GueulEclator opened by saying. In many ways it's really not that different from how people are today... maybe someone is a Christian, but also keeps a good luck charm, uses a system to come up with a lucky number for the lottery, trusts his/her health to a (science-based) doctor, enjoys fantasy movies, and so on. We're having a lot of fun with this, from a gameplay as well as a content perspective. There is so much overlap here, for example, some monks doing advanced science work, meanwhile someone else might be practicing medicine, without any real training or skill at all. Local areas had their own ancient superstitions and beliefs, etc. It's a really rich hodge podge, and we are exploring ways to allow players to employ different solutions to given traditional cb game challenges (e.g. healthcare, worship)

As far as, let's call them, supernatural beings or events, that's something else. It's funny that in historical games it seems to work to have gods be real, whether they appear in physical form (as in Zeus), or perform events (as in Caesar and Pharaoh). Why does this work? The people at the time believed this, so when we look back we make them real. Weird. In CotN we approached this very differently.

MM will be a little of both. Often things will happen that are attributed to the gods or some supernatural force, because that is what the people believed, and that has to mean something to you as their leader. In cases where supernatural stuff actually is in operation, it will not be overt (e.g. gods walking down the streets). There may be a dragon terrorizing the countryside, but you will never see it. In this way the game will "read" much as we read historical works of the time.

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Postby PhilL » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:25 pm

oh please let us see the dragon and watch our little people slay it even if its in a cut scene :)

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Chris Beatrice
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Postby Chris Beatrice » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:02 pm

"PhilL" wrote:oh please let us see the dragon and watch our little people slay it even if its in a cut scene :)


Ok, fair enough, we won't rule that out yet!


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