Monuments

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PhilL
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Monuments

Postby PhilL » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:55 pm

One thing I really enjoyed in past TM games was the building of monuments or other large construction projects. The tasks of collecting resources and manpower to achive these buildings was IMHO fun. I liked watching the progress as the project advanced, the challange of maintaining the supply chain, and work force.

I do see that castles were a big part of medeval times. I am not much of a historian so if others know of major construction efforts during this time period you can add to the list.

Caesar Clifford
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Postby Caesar Clifford » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:56 am

Catheradels and churchs were big builds.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:27 pm

One thing about cathedrals is that they often took hundreds of years to complete. That might not fit inside the scope of the game easily.

In games like Children of the Nile ot often took up to 20+ game years to complete the largest pyramid in the game.

It depends on what they have in mind in terms of scenario length.

Amrine
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Postby Amrine » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:32 pm

I think it also depends on how "accurate historically" a game has to be made. It is a game. Maybe a little historical inaccuracy like a fast building cathedral wouldn't be all that bad if it added to the enjoyment of the player.

tobing
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Postby tobing » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:40 pm

Or you can have stages for the building of a cathedral, like 3 scenarios which correspond to grand father, father and son building the cathedral, each taking off where the resp. father left... Many cathedrals were built within a hundred years or so, only the largest took longer. Like the cathedral in Cologne, and there the reason mostly was that money was running out before the project was completed.

Malkael
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Postby Malkael » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:06 pm

Perhaps something like a Grand Marketplace or Plaza could also be a form of monument. While the Grand Place in Brussels is possibly not a monument in the strictest definition of the term the Grand Place is an impressive landmark none the less. It would be interesting to have the ability to build a lavish landmark/monument in the center of your city as a way of making your town or city look greatly more attractive, and as an impressive way of showing off your settlement's great prosperity and\or culture.

Pharaoh Pepy
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Postby Pharaoh Pepy » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:06 pm

Ornamented crosses like the famous Eleanor Crosses would be simpler to do.

GillB
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Postby GillB » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:52 pm

Ever since reading Pillars of the Earth I've wanted to be able to build a cathedral.

Yes, it would take many years but it could be like building the pyramids - building wooden scaffolding, quarrying stone, getting it to the right place, employing skilled workers then building it up in stages depending on your finances, stability of your town and availability of workers with the right skills.

If things are going well, you could build a chapel in one of the aisles or some new carvings or do some wallpaintings. So many options if they could be built into a game somehow.

EmperorJay
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Postby EmperorJay » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:27 am

I absolutely loved Pillars of the Earth and the series wasn't too bad either. Thumbs up for cathedrals.

On a related note: Perhaps some side missions, as in the colonies in Zeus, could be about setting up an abbey or priory?

Keith
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Postby Keith » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:52 pm

From the Games Arena interview with Chris Beatrice on 10/26:

"...we do have cathedrals and other large religious buildings and monuments, but not castles."

The "...and monuments,...." has me wondering.

JaAchan daVariso
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Postby JaAchan daVariso » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:53 pm

I can't find much on large buildings during the middle ages - there's Mont Saint-Michel, though I suppose that counts as a religious building? (Would also be in the country-side, sort of.) The Palace of Versailles is somewhat too late, but the Palace of Fontainebleau might be in. Maybe some fortifications or canals? Focus might not be on combat, but that doesn't we shouldn't get to build fancy military structures :P But my search of the World Heritages comes up mostly empty for buildings in that time.
Last edited by JaAchan daVariso on Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Grammar

Keith
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Postby Keith » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:40 pm

I did a bit of quick research and had the same problem. I did find that most of the "monumental" construction tended to be churches of rather small size and at least one more impressive structure called "Torhalle" (literally "gatehouse) in L[SIZE=2]ö[/SIZE]rsch, Germany built around 772 a.d.

Of course, castles and forts remained the most numerous types of "monumental" architecture. I don't know if TM consider forts and castles as one in the same.

Early on castles and forts were built out of wood with stone coming in as the more popular choice somewhere around 1066 a.d.

But Chris seems to have ruled out castles so far. I'll have to looks some more to see what other possibilities might be, like a harbor or breakwater, or canal, etc.

vic_4
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Postby vic_4 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:07 pm

Castles were a product of feudality, while the game is medioval mayor, so it should be centered on cities development and common people which were the opponents of feudal lords, so I am not surprised that castles are excluded. Medioeval buildings were the city halls, to say one the Bargello palace in Florence and the merchants' and bishop's palaces and fortified towers within the town.
For sure Mont Saint Michel can be considered a religious building, like every kind of abbey.

Pharaoh Pepy
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Postby Pharaoh Pepy » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:41 pm

No castles? All large medieval towns had a castle which generally belonged the liege lord, say a count, or even the king. Paris had the Temple, Louvre and Bastille, all castles. London has the Tower of London. Dublin has Dublin castle, well except for one tower, had.

mad_genius
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Postby mad_genius » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:29 pm

There could be a mission requiring the player to found a city that was supposed to be a "walled city". The map would already have the foundation of the walls and gates (like the missions about building the great wall of china in emperor rotmk) and the player would have to build inside this footprints and establish the worker camps and start gathering wood/stone/marble/etc. to supply the construction sites.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:11 pm

As opposed to building castles, which are not supposed to be in MM, city walls of various types would be a good "monumental" project. I mentioned the Great Wall projects of Emperor in another post myself.

Now, if this were a Roman citybuilder...... :rolleyes: :D

...you could build Hadrian's Wall. ;)

Deaghaidh
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Postby Deaghaidh » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:53 pm

City walls were a major undertaking. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe this is also the time that the dutch started draining their wetlands and building dikes, maybe that could be one?

Even short of cathedrals, regular churches were pretty big projects that reflected the best building techniques available to the community at the time. In Ireland they had high crosses, not epic in scale but fairly big deals. But that's far outside any "urban" context.

It seems that most major structures that survive are practical in some way, either places of worship, defensive structures, public spaces like marketplaces, infrastructure like canals and wharves. Very little in the way of giant edifices built for the sake of building them.

velociraptor2000
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Postby velociraptor2000 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:16 pm

What about some grand Channels with multiple sections, we've seen in Emperor? I'm a fan of Monuments too. After all its just a game. :)

Also... Pharaoh was the best at monument building. Each piece of granite was turning into something... it was nice to watch a monument growing and growing piece by piece.
Last edited by velociraptor2000 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Flammehav
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Postby Flammehav » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:57 am

"Keith" wrote:One thing about cathedrals is that they often took hundreds of years to complete. That might not fit inside the scope of the game easily.

In games like Children of the Nile ot often took up to 20+ game years to complete the largest pyramid in the game.

It depends on what they have in mind in terms of scenario length.


One of the big reasons for that was usually funding. Many project got stopped for years and even even decades(I think one of them even had a 79 year break or something), before resuming. It had MANY breaks like that and took 650 years to build, but if the funding had been i order, I think it could probably had been done in a life time(25-50 years). + I don't see it totally out of place if the games tweaks it a bit. It's not like a great pyramid could be built in 30 years by 200-400 people either.


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