Religion/Gods

Discuss anticipated or desired features here
Atts
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Religion/Gods

Postby Atts » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:16 am

Something i'm suprised that hasn't already been mentioned, something that was big at the time and during the other games, although mostly annoying as well.

I'd like to see religion handled in a more efficent way, maybe something similar to how the later Anno games did it with the building being placed and the surrounding houses attending the building rather then a walker attending them.

In total i'd like to see less emphasis on this. Although i know religion played a major role in the dark ages it would be nice to not have to worry so much about curses or disasters.

Caesar Clifford
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Postby Caesar Clifford » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:28 am

I never liked the gods walking around the place lke in zeus and emperor. But yes the anno games where each building had an area of influence sounds good rather than just the total number of temples of C3. very important part of life in those days.

EmperorJay
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Postby EmperorJay » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:58 am

With most older CB-games, the main element of religion was not just happiness of the people but also that pleasing the different gods, deities and heroes had different effects. That will be gone in this game unless they add saints.

I think the primary role of religion should be to please the crowd, more realistically it would be a source of income and should hinder scientific progress.

Caesar Clifford
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Postby Caesar Clifford » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:54 am

There was a massive trade in relics and bones of saints - they have to be included in some way.

tobing
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Postby tobing » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:50 am

Saints: That's a very good idea to include...

Atts
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Postby Atts » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:45 am

Some interestig ideas, I suppose religion could be done in the worshiping of saints rather then actual religions such as protestant and catholic...

Czech Centurian
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Postby Czech Centurian » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:02 am

"Atts" wrote:Some interestig ideas, I suppose religion could be done in the worshiping of saints rather then actual religions such as protestant and catholic...


I don't think protestants were around that early in the medieval times.

tobing
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Postby tobing » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:07 am

"Atts" wrote:Some interestig ideas, I suppose religion could be done in the worshiping of saints rather then actual religions such as protestant and catholic...


Protestants only existed after Martin Luther in 1520 and around, when he was banned from the catholic church and worked on translating the bible into the german language.

But instead there were many pagan cults, the catholic church tried to convert people by different means, and there were many abbeys or monasteries where variants of catholic were lived and taught, and there many fights for the "right" way to be catholic, both by words and by swords. Think of Franciscans versus Benedictines, or what they did with the Cathars.

Not to forget about the Muslims invading Spain and the South of France until the battle of Poitiers in 732...

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Postby EmperorJay » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:00 am

And, although probably outside of the traditional medieval context, let's not forget the East and West schism!

vic_4
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Postby vic_4 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:01 am

And also heresies were an important aspect of medioeval religion.

tobing
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Postby tobing » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:59 am

The East- West schism had a strong part during the crusades, between 1050 and 1250 mostly. These crusades also were very important because of their religious part, many kings and other rulers as well as ordinary knights were fighting to be relieved from their sins. Well known names like Richard Lionheart and Saladin must be mentioned here (I have only recently read a very nice book about the crusades).

Then there was the schism when there were two western popes, one in Rome and one in Avignon, this lasted about 100 years, between 1200 and 1300. Fighting all kinds of heresy to stay in power was always important for the catholics, and there were many sects and variants of catholic belief which led to pursuit of dissenting people. See Cathars again, their extiction led by the inquisition was also about that time. We have been in Albi this summer, where one the center of the catharian movement was. Very impressive city and cathedral.

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Postby Pharaoh Pepy » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:47 am

"Czech Centurian" wrote:I don't think protestants were around that early in the medieval times.


Waldensians? They emerged in the late twelfth century with the preaching of merchant Peter Valdez of Lyon which came to be treated as heretical. Later during the Reformation they came to adopt most of the Calvinist tenets becoming in effect a Calvinist community in what is now Italy and Switzerland. The Cathar heresy is different. Probably related to the dualist Bogomil sect of the Balkans, their idea of a God created spirit world, and a Satanic material world, while using the Bible, makes the Mormons seem more Christian than the Church of England or Born Again or whoever people class as most Christian (subjective utterly). :p

There could be an event or game aspect where a player could opt to back an Avignon anti-pope, or something of that nature. Perhaps the player would have to root out Papal agents.

Caesar Clifford
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Postby Caesar Clifford » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:07 am

Prodostints [ sp ?] only turned up in England in early 1500's when Herny 8th wanted to marry one.

But we still don't know which country the game will be based in or if it will be general Europe.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:09 am

The info on the home pages says "The dark ages are ending and a new day is dawning - it's the not so spectacular start of the glorious (if you do your job right!) Middle Ages. "

The Dark Ages ran from roughly 476 a.d. to 1000 a.d. following the fall of the Roman Empire in the East.

There is a period of time that europeans often call the "Early Middle Ages" which is set from 614 a.d. to 911 a.d.

If the time fram mentioned on the home page is the fact, then the time period you have to imagine is the one dating from around 1000 a.d. and not the 1500s.

Nightgaunt
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Postby Nightgaunt » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:18 pm

I think even a semi-historical medieval game that doesn’t make religion a major part of its world and mechanics is going to be lacking something.

Something TM should consider is an economic side of building churches and cathedrals: pilgrimage. A church with a saint’s relic could become a destination for pilgrims, and those pilgrims would spend money in the city. And the more prestigious the bishop or abbot or lord of a city, the more likely it is that he might get a donation of a relic from the Holy Land or some rural monastery. So I could see a system of collecting relics and building churches and cathedrals to house them and bring in more pilgrims and more commerce.

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Postby EmperorJay » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:27 pm

To quote Chris Beatrice from another thread, I think your suggestion might just be what they intend to include in the game.

As for the friar and the alchemist, yeah, you've got it, there is some supernatural stuff in the game, though it's not over the top. I think you're right about how the medieval setting is often realized in games. In ancient world games it seems really natural (apparently) that the gods are real and do stuff, even if they're not visually represented in the game (as in Pharaoh and C3). But if you do that in a medieval setting... it's fantasy... anyway, in MM we are doing a couple of (I think) interesting things here. First off, for many of the city's needs, challenges and problems, there are religious, scientific and "magical" solutions. Again, the "magic" is not overt or over the top, maybe a potion here, a love spell there. More like folk magic or superstition. The religions include mainly historical Christian and pagan religions, and some others (and is expandable). The "scientific" approach includes many disciplines common today, but which were in their infancy in the middle ages (e.g. doctor, dentist, astronomer, etc.). The alchemist sits between magic and science, so it should be said that these distinctions are not rigidly drawn in the game (at least not all of them).


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