Emigration

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Alpha
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Emigration

Postby Alpha » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:24 pm

Hello

I have just started playing this game.

I started making maps in the Scenario Editor to customise my own land. But I have a problem.

In game my Overseers and slowly alot of other of my population begin to emmigrate of which they slowly walk off the map and presumabley go to another city.

Is there a way to prevent emmigration?

Thanks in advance.
Regards - Alpha

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:59 pm

Howdy, Alpha!

Are these homes you are placing in the editor, or just from playing the map?

Educated Workers & Nobles will hit the road if unhappy.

Not sure if this is what you are asking. Perhaps a bit more detail of exactly what is going on?

Alpha
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Postby Alpha » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:14 pm

Ok, Basically

Im in the map editor.

I have placed quite alot of everything to make a basic city.

I placed many Overseer buildings and Priest apartmants.

But my problem is within about 5-10 minuites of playing they simply walk away.

Nothings wrong with my city. its got everything it needs.

After that i struggle finding replacements for overseers and priests so my game just isnt the same.

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:23 pm

Why don't you use the Manage Attachments below the posting box to upload either your scenario .scn or just an .ank game save showing the problem? We don't need the scenario .scn to play your save, but it might help too.

Alpha
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Postby Alpha » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:34 am

Basically my Priests and Overseers decide to Emigrate for no apparent reason. The city is content with me and I give them holidays but the Overseers and Priests just abandon and walk away.

Anyway take a look at my scenario and test it and see for yourself
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sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:02 am

Didn't look into the file yet, but do you have enough prestige to support all these educates? If you place more than you are allowed, the excess ones will leave the city...

Keith
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Postby Keith » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:13 am

The availability of food, goods, and services will also have a great influence on emigration. How is the satisfaction level of all those Overseers, Priests, etc.?

A look at your actual save game file would tell us if it is your style of play or the scenario itself that has the problem.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:29 am

I took a quick look at the scn file. They city is already built and supposedly stocked with bricks and food, but there is no flood plain to grow more food. There are few natural resources on the map, especially along the river where you would normally find reeds, papyrus, clay, etc.

I would normally expect to find a map with resources to exploit and not a ready-built city when I open a new scenario. I think you focused on the wrong area in building your map.

Spend more time on making the map itself and less time on building a city for the player....that's their job.

I think the problem with your emigration is as I stated above. The city is too big and has no resources or functioning services that use those resources, like reeds for mat makers, clay for potters, etc.
Last edited by Keith on Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yahya
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Postby Yahya » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:07 pm

I agree with Keith.

Additionally, on loading your scenario, you have 48 educated workers:

5 Commanders
16 Overseers
4 Scribes
23 Priests

On Easy, you get 35 educated. On Hard it's only 25.

You have WAY too many overseers and priests for any city. So they're emigrating because they have nothing to do, nothing to buy, and you're over the maximum so the city essentially ejects them.

Additionally, your shrines and temples are dedicated to no dieties, so the temples don't have maximum impact, and the shrines are useless. That will lead to the general population being upset, eventually.

You have no farmers, because there is no floodplain, but you have 4 nobles. Those guys will get mad quickly and leave, also, because they can buy no goods.

You have 85 common and 84 luxury shops, which is far too many even for this city. They will not be able to make any money and many of them will become vagrants as well.

When the scenario loads, there are 27 vagrants and 0 villagers. I think you might have meant that to be the other way around. Vagrants will eventually populate open homes, but slower than villagers. And the first homes those people will populate will be farmhouses (you have 0) and servants (you have 6 and they are full). So your city can never grow very quickly. (Farmhouses also produce children to populate the other homes.)

The good news about that is that the city is far too big and out of proportion to support any growth at all.

So what will happen is the city will shrink, first by losing educated workers, then probably nobles, then the shops will start to become vagrants due to lack of income, until everything shrinks down to where it can be supported.

Then as educated people retire, a home will be populated by a graduate, and not necessarily the home you wish.

All your overseers, priests, and scribes are set to do all jobs. That, combined with the last fact about repopulation on retirement, will produce chaos down the road.

And while I'm on scribes, you have scribes! You have no trade sites on the world map and no floodplain, so no farms. Scribes are unnecessary, and 4 of your educated slots are taken up by them. They are not needed on that map.

Maybe I'll play this one through later and see what happens. Got to go to work now. :p

EDIT: I found the resources to the northwest side of the island. You have everything, I think, but of course I can't find any clay, even in the editor. That will mean no bricks or pottery, and you have 20 brickmakers and 40 bricklayers (!!). You also have 21 stone carvers, so you must have big plans.

You also have no path for the river to the edge of the map, which means the river will drain and never refill. That doesn't really matter on this map, but it spoils the illusion a liitle bit. If you want a moat like that, make a very narrow path to the edge of the map and cover it up with shrubbery to keep the river filled.

Lastly, here's a snapshot of the people overlay for reference.

EDIT 2: You've also given yourself 9999 Events prestige somehow (there are no sites on the world map, so I guess it's from the obelisks?), which allows the max educated workers from the start.

I forgot I had started the scenario and left it running for a few minutes. All educated workers by 6 priests emigrated. That makes sense. It's about what I expected. Other than that, the city seems fairly stable.
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Last edited by Yahya on Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Alpha
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Postby Alpha » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:25 pm

im gona remake the map. Im a horrible terrainer and i guess i did overuse my population

Yahya
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Postby Yahya » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:42 pm

What are your goals with making that map? You could use the same one by just reducing the number of educated elites.

If you really want to achieve a great city using the editor, I suggest you look both at Reed's tutorials in the Editing forum, as well as my own CotN Scenario Editor's Manual.

There's a lot of stuff in there you might not care about, but the first few pages will give you some critical information about how the game works.

Alpha
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Postby Alpha » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:50 pm

Im trying to make a map where I can develop a city. ive remade it so i dont start with a city..

Also how do you make flood plains in the editor? Im stuck on that one

EDIT: im stuck on making food how do I make food in game? Yes i have farmers, granary, bakers and many different food resources scattered around map.

Same with bricks. my brick makers arent making bricks. yes I do have clay deposits.

Yahya
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Postby Yahya » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:23 pm

If you're just starting with a map so you can build a huge city, I recommend you first do the tutorials, because they will explain all of that.

Floodplain is a texture in the editor, so you have to paint floodplain onto the map somewhere. Otherwise, the farmers will plant no farms in Peret season.

Without those farms, there is no harvest, and no food goes to the threshing area, where it's picked up by all non-government workers, and none goes to bakeries, where it is made into bread to be picked up by the government workers.

Second recommendation is that if you want to build a huge city without goals getting in the way, go to the User Created Scenarios forum and download some of those. Several of them in there are labeled as sandbox, so you can build without any raids or activity that would stop you.

So floodplain will fix your food problem, as long as you have a palace and nobles. Without the palace and nobles, the farmhouses will not be populated and nothing will happen.

For bricks, you need clay and one other resource that escapes me. (There are actually two options, but without at least one of them on the map, no bricks can get made.)

And as I wrote earlier, if you have no villagers on the map, you will get no farmers or servants. Without those, you will get no brickmakers, because the person that moves into the brickmaker's home must FIRST be either a farmer or a servant.

Basically, I suggest you run through the tutorials first. That will take you between 1 and 6 hours, depending on how much you look around and build. Then come back with any questions you have. The tutorials will help you understand the flow of materials in the game, and without that understanding, you won't be able to build your own map.

Alpha
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Postby Alpha » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:26 pm

Okay thanks. ill do some tutorials and look out for the sandboxes cheers everyone

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:37 pm

Good Morning, Folks! Looks like I am late to the party! :D

Wow, Alpha, just WOW! Someone is having a TON of fun in the Lab! Bravo!

I don't know why your Educated Workers left either! :eek: You have plenty of prestige, but everyone left except for the standard 4 Educated that we get on Normal, when 25 (your prestige level) should stay!

This is a geat Lab & I am definitely having fun with it!

Thank You! :)

EDIT: OK, I made an error. I forgot your scenario will start how I have my game set, Hard difficulty, and this explains the 25 max Educated Workers. Now I just have to figure out why they all left except for 4. Should be 3 by my original hypothesis that you broke the game with the 9999 initial prestige setting. Obviously, you didn't break it at all.

Anyway, I set the 4 priests to education & they are making graduates & Educated coming back now slowly.

As others have noted, you have no Flood Plains, so your food will eventually run out & then you will have problems, big time.

I suggest you really learn a bit more about how to play the game before you jump into the Editor. Game experience will help a lot.

Good Luck! :)

REEDIT: How to make floodplains. Step #6 here in Matt's Editor Lesson #1. For this map, you don't have to worry about elevation/flood garbage, painting floodplain anywhere on your map will work (make it BIG, farm fields need a lot of room). The elevation is just for the pretty water coming in each season & much more complex scenariomaking involving coastlines.

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4713
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:36 pm, edited 13 times in total.

Speedy7th
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Back to the Tutorials!

Postby Speedy7th » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:23 pm

Hi Alpha!

I'm glad to see that you'll be doing the Tutorials! Especially seeing that, as you say in your first posting, you've just started playing CotN.

When I then read that you were designing CotN scenarios... MY! What determination! I've gone to the design section of this game but I dread the thought of such an undertaking! More power to you!

Back to the Tutorials... You'll find some additional help at:
http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12328

Those tips will help you tremendously in understanding some of the game's basics. With several hours of gameplay under your belt, you'll then have an understanding of priorities, necessities and sequence in designing a scenario.

Once you become familiar with most of the scenarios that come with CotN, you could then try the custom scenarios designed by our fellow members. That would give you ideas about what you might like to include in your scenarios.

Happy Gaming Alpha! We hope we can look forward to some interesting scenarios from you!

Thanks Good Buddy!

Have Fun! :)

Speedy7th.

Yahya
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Postby Yahya » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:12 pm

Actually, now that I think of it, do you have any experience with the past city builder games, Alpha? If so, you need to know that CotN is much different.

But it's also different than a lot of other seemingly similar games.

Once you get through those tutorials, we'll all start having some seriously cool discussions. I can't wait! :D

Alpha
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Postby Alpha » Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:40 pm

"Yahya" wrote:Actually, now that I think of it, do you have any experience with the past city builder games, Alpha? If so, you need to know that CotN is much different.

But it's also different than a lot of other seemingly similar games.

Once you get through those tutorials, we'll all start having some seriously cool discussions. I can't wait! :D


I have had experience from a few games but most of them were strategy games. This one is very different. I havn't had much experience though. I'm still reading those tutorials anyway =)


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